R
Ross Povey
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With watches, as with many things in life, the thrill is often in the chase. This seems particularly true when it comes to the pursuit of “issued” watches. By issued, I'm referring to tool watches that were assigned to professional divers for commercial or military use. I have a number of friends who have spent hours, days, months and years tracking down rare military issued Submariners and SeaDwellers worn by Comex divers.
My story starts a couple of years ago, when I took the reigns at tudorcollector.net and started building the military pages. There had been a lot of research done and some published on the Tudor Submariners issued to the French Navy, the Marine Nationale (MN). I owned a nice example and had spent a couple of years reading up and conducting some of my own research. As part of this I came across a couple of rumors about a small batch of Snowflake Subs that were issued by the South African Navy to their clearance divers. The chase began...
Tudor MN Submariner Dating To 1974, The Same Date As The South African Subs
It is now generally accepted that the MN watches were ordered from Geneva in batches and can date to a number of years. The South African MilSubs date to 1974 and fall within one of the earliest batches of French MN 7016s, the most coveted black "MN 74" (see Grahame Fowler’s example here). My research tells me that these watches were sourced through the French Marine Nationale, by the South African Navy. The French supplied the South African Navy's first Daphne class submarine and the French Navy certainly delivered training in Toulon to South African Navy divers in the early 70s as well. I have a theory that the South African divers saw and used the MN Tudors and decided they wanted to utilize the snowflake watches for their own work, and this theory has been supported by several ex-South African Navy divers, who confirm they were issued both Rolex and Tudor Submariners.
So what about the actual watches? Well, I have now managed to compile a database of these watches and the actual number of confirmed pieces is tiny. My own personal database of MN watches is now up to approximately 150 pieces, but fewer than ten of those are South African! What is certain is that all the examples, with one exception, have originated in South Africa and more specifically Simonstown, which is where the country's Navy is based. Most of the examples I know of were bought from clearance divers, Navy personnel, and even one from a Navy watchmaker.
As part of my research, I contacted a well-established collector in South Africa, who had acquired a couple of these pieces as part of a larger personal collection. Following numerous emails he agreed to sell me one of his. Bingo – I'd hit the MilSub lottery! There was just one small glitch, how to get it over to the UK? A week later, the planets aligned!
My brother works in the world of professional sports, in the area of diet and nutrition, and a colleague of his, who we'll call John, works with England Rugby. Within two days of my agreeing to buy the Tudor my brother told me that John was travelling over to South Africa on tour with the team later that month. It was meant to be. John and I met up and I handed over the cash and gave him a couple of key pointers. Three weeks later the watch made its journey to the UK and was delivered to me. There were some hilarious tales including creative places to securely stow my cash in Durban, international rugby stars bemused by the importance of such a scruffy little watch and the actual transaction in Port Elizabeth. Quite the journey for a watch that had already been through a lot.
There really is, to me anyway, something striking and strong about this black Snowflake. The blue watches have an elegance to them, but the black is utilitarian and no-nonsense in a true military style. The case is in lovely original condition. It is certainly no “safe queen” and shows its literal battle scars, including four gouges on the case back where a non-Rolex case opening tool was used at some point and some deep scratches on the original T19 superdome crystal. I believe a large part of its charm is its as-found state.
So what is the secret? Well, the common theme of these watches is the serial number that is engraved across the case back. The engravings on all watches are of a high quality and are reasonably deep, unlike the shallow personal engravings seen on some military watches. As I mentioned earlier, they are from a very small serial batch and so they all have a number of common numerals in the engravings. The font of the engravings is very distinguishable and all my examples on file have the same details in the numbers.
Are there more out there? I’m sure of it. I am chasing up a lead at the moment in Cape Town, which may or may not lead to the discovery of another. So what is next? An incredible original example of an issued Canadian MilSub seems to have surfaced – but more on that later.
Continue reading...
Let us know your thoughts and impressions.
With watches, as with many things in life, the thrill is often in the chase. This seems particularly true when it comes to the pursuit of “issued” watches. By issued, I'm referring to tool watches that were assigned to professional divers for commercial or military use. I have a number of friends who have spent hours, days, months and years tracking down rare military issued Submariners and SeaDwellers worn by Comex divers.
My story starts a couple of years ago, when I took the reigns at tudorcollector.net and started building the military pages. There had been a lot of research done and some published on the Tudor Submariners issued to the French Navy, the Marine Nationale (MN). I owned a nice example and had spent a couple of years reading up and conducting some of my own research. As part of this I came across a couple of rumors about a small batch of Snowflake Subs that were issued by the South African Navy to their clearance divers. The chase began...
Tudor MN Submariner Dating To 1974, The Same Date As The South African Subs
It is now generally accepted that the MN watches were ordered from Geneva in batches and can date to a number of years. The South African MilSubs date to 1974 and fall within one of the earliest batches of French MN 7016s, the most coveted black "MN 74" (see Grahame Fowler’s example here). My research tells me that these watches were sourced through the French Marine Nationale, by the South African Navy. The French supplied the South African Navy's first Daphne class submarine and the French Navy certainly delivered training in Toulon to South African Navy divers in the early 70s as well. I have a theory that the South African divers saw and used the MN Tudors and decided they wanted to utilize the snowflake watches for their own work, and this theory has been supported by several ex-South African Navy divers, who confirm they were issued both Rolex and Tudor Submariners.
So what about the actual watches? Well, I have now managed to compile a database of these watches and the actual number of confirmed pieces is tiny. My own personal database of MN watches is now up to approximately 150 pieces, but fewer than ten of those are South African! What is certain is that all the examples, with one exception, have originated in South Africa and more specifically Simonstown, which is where the country's Navy is based. Most of the examples I know of were bought from clearance divers, Navy personnel, and even one from a Navy watchmaker.
As part of my research, I contacted a well-established collector in South Africa, who had acquired a couple of these pieces as part of a larger personal collection. Following numerous emails he agreed to sell me one of his. Bingo – I'd hit the MilSub lottery! There was just one small glitch, how to get it over to the UK? A week later, the planets aligned!
My brother works in the world of professional sports, in the area of diet and nutrition, and a colleague of his, who we'll call John, works with England Rugby. Within two days of my agreeing to buy the Tudor my brother told me that John was travelling over to South Africa on tour with the team later that month. It was meant to be. John and I met up and I handed over the cash and gave him a couple of key pointers. Three weeks later the watch made its journey to the UK and was delivered to me. There were some hilarious tales including creative places to securely stow my cash in Durban, international rugby stars bemused by the importance of such a scruffy little watch and the actual transaction in Port Elizabeth. Quite the journey for a watch that had already been through a lot.
There really is, to me anyway, something striking and strong about this black Snowflake. The blue watches have an elegance to them, but the black is utilitarian and no-nonsense in a true military style. The case is in lovely original condition. It is certainly no “safe queen” and shows its literal battle scars, including four gouges on the case back where a non-Rolex case opening tool was used at some point and some deep scratches on the original T19 superdome crystal. I believe a large part of its charm is its as-found state.
So what is the secret? Well, the common theme of these watches is the serial number that is engraved across the case back. The engravings on all watches are of a high quality and are reasonably deep, unlike the shallow personal engravings seen on some military watches. As I mentioned earlier, they are from a very small serial batch and so they all have a number of common numerals in the engravings. The font of the engravings is very distinguishable and all my examples on file have the same details in the numbers.
Are there more out there? I’m sure of it. I am chasing up a lead at the moment in Cape Town, which may or may not lead to the discovery of another. So what is next? An incredible original example of an issued Canadian MilSub seems to have surfaced – but more on that later.
Continue reading...
Let us know your thoughts and impressions.